Tracking Lineages

[Bruce W Sims]

Thanks, Jason:

For myself I had not had the same experience. Oh, I know that what you say is correct as far as the Japanese Occupation. There are also a lot of folks who are simply to interested in developing a following in order to make their practice "pay". Guess thats material for another thread.

What I have found, however, is that practice of traditional Korean sword in the form of SHIP PAL KI, BON KUK KUM BUP and CHOSON SE-BUP have continued on for generations in Korea. Most people when they think of the Japanese Occupation are right about the Korean culture being irradicated only as far as the large urban centers. Out away in the rural communities there really wasn't that much different, though Korean practices often kept a low profile and subsumed their own material under Japanese practice when the eye of the authorities was caught.

Another place where Korean culture was damaged was in those cases where the Koreans themselves collaborated with the Japanese in the hopes of having something better after centuries of abuse by the inherited and landed nobility.

Lastly, the Japanese have the distinction of having been ruled by a socio-economic class based on warrior service. They have been obsessive-compulsive about their martial traditions as with everything else. Not a bad thing, but not the way the Koreans have done things. Problem is that in order to build a business on MA the Japanese Model tends to be better because of its structure. The Koreans noted this, saw that their own lack of structure was not as good and have been chasing the Japanese Model ever since.
Just people being people, ne?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[idma]

That was an interesting reply. I beleive that rather for business or for personal reasons, Korean's have a reputation for creating their own history. Even Taekkyon for that matter. Song, Duk Gi, the only livig master of Taekkyon, was born in 1893. The Japanese took over Korea in 1910. He claimed to be a 'master' before the occupation, he was only 17. I love Korean arts, I'll be there in October, but I feel that much of there martial history is just not true. I believe that kuk sool & hwarangdo are by far the worst when it comes to making up there history. Kind of off subject, but these are my thoughts.

[Bruce W Sims]

Yes, I agree. And its one of the things that really bothers me about the turn that Korean traditions took in the 20th Century.

Its not that the Koreans have not had a long and solid martial history. Its not as though the culture was completely erased by the Japanese. But the Koreans have traditions that survived and most of these were ignored by the Korean people themselves. Further, not only did they ignore their own traditions but look whose traditions they chose to mimic! In fact, what is worse, history has shown that the Koreans would rather MAKE-UP history or copy the traditions of the very people who trashed their culture, than honor their OWN martial traditions.

I gotta say that if a country invaded the US, occupied us for forty years and trashed our institutions and traditions, I don't think I would be standing in line to copy that country and deny my own background.

The Koreans could have done their research and built their current standing on a proud heritage. Instead they were apparently more concerned with building various followings in order to establish commercially viable organizations.

Sorry, but something about this really burns me. Look how many people are involved in this single thread alone regarding lineage. Something is very wrong.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[The Rose Knight]

I will have to see if I can find out the training lineage of my own master. It would be fascinating to learn.

On the subject of assuming aspect of Japanese martial culture in favor of older Korean traditions, it seems that this is a case of martial styles migrating from one place to another and being completely assumed by the recipient culture.

Perhaps rather than in intentional neglect of older traditions or a mere aping of the Japanese, The Korean MA community, by that point heavilly influenced by Japanese MA simply decided to Koreanize the Japanese MA they were all practicing at that point. With the Japanese structure already in place within those arts, simply Koreanizing them took the best aspects of admittedly very appealing arts and made them their own. Patching them into their own history took away the sting of the MA's Japanese origins.

I could be way off base in this, but I will say that the Korean's adoption of these arts has been a benefit to many; the Koreans have been fantastic promoters of the martial arts, at least in the US, and on a much greater level than the Japanese. Whenever someone goes to learn Karate, they seem to always be taking Tae Kwon Do from Korean and American instructors at Korean owned schools. For every one school that is truly Japanese, there are twenty Korean schools. In fact, I'd dare say that were it not for the Korean influence, many Americans would never have gotten into the martial arts. Korea, in many ways, have become ambassadors of the martial arts in a way that the Japanese never really could.

[Bruce W Sims]

Yes, I agree. The Koreans have been extraordinary promoters and marketeers of a whole range of events and activities. For instance, TKD is renowned around the world and even had its shot at the International Olympics. I don't fault any of that. Rather what I am speaking of is the preservation and promotion of practices that were part and parcel of Korean traditions from years ago. Koreans have had their own form of wrestling (Ssireum), their own form of combative sport (Taek Kyon), their own form of Archery (using the recurved bow), their own form of equestrian training and a whole range of practices imported from China over the last 5 centuries. Why the emphasis on Japanese tradition?

Korean sword uses 5 different sword architectures but the only one that gets emphasized is the two-handed dao of Japanese Katana likeness. Its plain that a number of the hyung were accomplised using a single-handed dao. And if one visits the museums or is lucky enough to view an authentic collection, the overwhelming numbers of Korean swords are single-handed dao and jian. All one has to do is read the historical documentation. And why does noone work with the Wol-do or Hyup-do? Sometimes I almost get the idea that Koreans are embarrassed by their past.

BTW: Let me say again that one cannot learn out of a book. However, the books DO give a catalogue of the practices and those practices are still followed in both China and Korea. I would just like to know why the Koreans shun their own heritage in favor of the Japanese material. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Miles]

Mr. Sims,

First, let me say that I enjoy your thoughtful, well documented posts. It is readily apparent you are a student of Korean history and culture. My own dojang’s (USFK Kumdo Club) lineage goes back three generations. My Sabunim is Cho, Chong No (5-Dan), his Sabunim is Grandmaster Cho (9-Dan) and I am not sure who his Sabunim was. I will certainly ask because I am quite interested in learning more about Grandmaster Cho. Grandmaster Cho is in his early 80s and recently came to our dojang at Master Cho’s invitation. We had a great training session with him. He still got around very well and managed to kick everyone’s butt.

It is my experience that most Korean’s are indifferent to history unless the issue is nationalist in nature, e.g., Dokdo, Koguryo dynasty, etc… I don’t see a tradition of lineage here that one would find in Japan for instance. Being here in Korea I would be more than happy to assist you in your endeavor in any way possible.

You may find this interesting; a recent news article came out basically saying that Ssireum is dead! Too few people are taking the sport up and the prediction is that it will effectively stop being a sport.

Good Luck and Best Wishes

Miles

[Bruce W Sims]

Thanks, Miles:

You pretty much hit the nail on the head!!

Its not so much that I am interested in setting up clear lines of succession like the Japanese have in their RYU-HA system. Rather, I am more interested in knowing the general lines of development. For instance, we all know that six gentlemen worked together to establish the Korean Kumdo Assn and its relationship with the IKF. There is nothing wrong with that. For me, it would be nice to have an understanding of the directions these various gentlemen took. Taken a step farther, it would also be nice to know where they developed FROM. In the genealogy I do with family members, for example, sometimes there is a point where the names and dates and places sorta peter-out. When that happens its still important to make records of opinions and stories since these are also part of the family history. Is this making sense? Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Miles]

Bruce,

I understand the direction you want to go. I have tried to talk to my Sabunim on many different occasions and I don't know if it is a language barrier (which I doubt) but he seems very reluctant to get into deep discussion about Kumdo. He has a wealth of knowledge, but doesn't talk much about it. I believe he's 'old school' in the sense that a student is there to learn, and in Korea you learn by obeying orders and not asking too many questions. If you are making a mistake, rest assured that the instructor will let you know. I will say that recently he has begun to discuss more about certain aspects of Kumdo, which has given me a ray of hope.

I see this as a larger issue. In another thread, the topic was Kumdo vs. Kendo; a VERY polarizing issue and it degenerated into a confusing debate on Korean history. This seems to happen anytime we try and analyze the direction the sport has taken in the two countries. Unfortunately anyone who defends our sport is immediately branded as a sore loser or worse by those in Kendo. The Kendoists SEEM to have claimed the higher ground in their arguments when in reality Kumdo and Kendo are the same in almost every respect.

I said that in order to make this point; what we need are more scholarly works concerning Kumdo. I believe that there are enough serious students of Kumdo in this forum to create the conditions to lend more weight and credibility to our sport. In this case I believe that Mr. Sims is clearly moving in the right direction. I applaud any and all who spend the time to conduct research in Kumdo, but once the research is complete it needs to be shared with everyone.

I honestly am not sure where we, the Kumdo community, go from here? I know there are significant hurdles to clear, especially the availability of primary and secondary documents, language, access to higher level Korean Dan’s for interviews, etc… My opinion is that until we drop the emotional tenor of our arguments and adopt a more learned approach, we are never going to be taken seriously.

I look forward to a review of my assessment of this broader issue.

Miles

[Bruce W Sims]

Thanks, Miles:

I have a suggestion but I am a little reluctant to share it since, as we both agree there are some polarizing aspects to the matter of Kendo as it relates to Kumdo and back again. However, I can imagine that down the road people would really appreciate knowing all that can be known about how Kumdo evolved. For instance, I know about the role that the BUTOKUKAI-CHOSON played in Kendo in Korea, and have some idea about the role of the KEISHI-RYU sword and the Korean police academy as well as the military sword such as TOYAMA-RYU being taught in Korea and Manchuria. All well and good and I look forward to talking about such things with interested parties.

However, what I was thinking was that such in-depth research is an on-going "labor-of-love". In the meantime I think we need to track our modern practice so that we can know how Kumdo is coming to be known and spread. IMO NOW is the time to do this while we still have people alive and capable of cooperating with contributions of information and opinion, yes?

Having said that I was wondering about a kind of "family tree" project that would lay out how varous teachers produced other teachers and so forth. Notice I am only talking about teachers since not all students will become teachers and making a tree of every practitioner would be unbelieveably complex. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Miles]

Bruce,

I don't know anything about BUTOKUKAI-CHOSON, the role of the KEISHI-RYU or the TOYAMA-RYU sword on the development of Kumdo and martial arts in general in Korea. I would appreciate, as well as others I am sure, if you would be kind enough to share with us.

Let me be the first to say that I will do my part by researching my dojangs family tree and sharing it with you.

As benefit of this may be in helping to legitimize some of the dojangs springing up in the US. One of the things that make Japanese martial arts so attractive to westerners, and Americans in particular, is the sense of history; that we belong to something bigger. If a dojang in the US can post a verifiable history that includes former champions, or leading figures in the development of Kumdo it begins to put us on par with the Japanese.

Tonight I will sit with my Sabunim and begin piecing together his lineage and will present that to the forum in the next week or so. I hope this will be the trigger to start a small revolution in our sport.

Miles

[Bruce W Sims]

Certainly! I don't mind at all, though sometimes get concerned that I will put people to sleep! I'll try to keep this short and just deal with the first source I mentioned. Let me start by giving you the relevant portion of my notes from my research.

"...................
The introduction of Western philosophy, politics and economies to the Japanese culture fueled an undercurrent of desire for reformation and renewal of the Japanese culture. The culmination of this reform was the Meiji Restoration of 1868 in which the Japanese emperor was once again the identified ruling power of the nation and the Shogunate was done away with. This was a final act in a process of decline for the warrior class of Japan that began with the introduction of European firearms and cannon in the 16th century. Such firepower superannuated years of training, individual combat and power that resided with an elite class. At a slow but steady rate the samurai warrior class, and the carrying of swords, were totally abolished following the Restoration in 1876. By extension, such practices as Ken jutsu (also known as “gekken”) fell into disrepute for their impotence against modern firearms and as undesirable relics of an oppressive military past. However, such practices, so deeply ingrained in the culture and psyche’ of a people, could not be so easily repressed, or ever completely irradicated.
The Police Revolt of 1887 was due in no small part to the abreaction of the former military elite resisting reform suggested by the influence of Western culture. The police had established the Batto-tai (“Drawn-sword Unit”) during the 1877 Satsuma Rebellion, though their established style, “Keishicho Ryu” (“Police Department Style”) was codified in 1886 from the efforts of outstanding Kenshi, representing various Ryu, who had been hired by the department in 1880. A set of ten unique kata, or sword forms (“Keishicho Gekkan Kata”), from six different existing styles of the day , were later the inspiration for the Dai Nippon Butokukai Kendo Kata in 1906.
In April, 1895 the Dai Nippon Butokukai, or “All Japan Martial Virtue Society” had been established by civilian enthusiasts of various traditional Japanese arts such as Archery, Ju-jutsu and Ken-jutsu. The kata or methods of some 200 ken-jutsu schools of the Tokugawa period united under this one approach. At that time, three Kamae (postures) were established including “gedan no kamae”, “chudan no kamae” and “jodan no kamae.” Among the styles of sword recognized at the time was Shinto Munen Ryu under various masters such as Watanabe Noburo, Shibae Umpachiro, and Negishi Shigoro, Jikishin Kage Ryu under Abe Morie and Tokuno Kansiro, Musashi Ryu under Mihashi Kanichiro and Kyoshin Mechi Ryu under Sakabe Daisaku.
In Kyoto Prefecture, Mr. Chiaki Watanabe, at that time the governor, was made chairman of the organization, a placement which came to be customary for the governors of other prefectures to which the organization spread and opened branches. As might be expected, then, when expanded to Korea in 1896, the Dai Nippon Butokukai (DNBK), Choson-bu (Korean Branch) under Nakamura, Tokichi, probably, likewise, was intended to provid cultural underpinnings to the increasing number of Japanese nationals who were entering Korea at the behest of their government.30
The DAI NIHON BUTOKUKAI had started the BUTOKU GAKKOU in 1911 to increase the growth of Kendo and MOMBUSHO, and the Japanese Ministry of Education, requested a committee to establish uniform Kendo kata for use in the educational system. It followed, then, that in 1912, a committee of 23 was formed from various Ryu reorganized the Dai Nippon Butokukai Kendo Kata, of 1906 to the Dai Nippon Teikoku Kendo Kata, consisting of 7 long sword and three short sword kata. Additional material was added in 1917 by Naito Takaji, Takana Sasaburo, Kadona Tadashi, Nakayama Hakudo and Minatobe Kuniharu and, with a few modifications the final form for the standard Kendo kata would be established in 1933. 400
Philosophically, other changes were introduced.
The term ken-jutsu, suggested only a catalogue of techniques. This may have been altered, may have been altered by Hiromichi Nishikubo, vice-chairman of the Butokukai in 1919. The change to Kendo suggested a life-time pursuit of character development instead, and it was under this moniker that the practice of these techniques became part of the regular high school curriculum of the time. Swordsmanship, as well as Judo, had been adopted to the Japanese educational system in 1911 at the prodding of Naito Takaharu and Isogai Hajime, both of the Dai Nippon Butokukai.
Korea, now subject to Japanese policy and rule could scarcely avoid adopting these practices. Kendo was officially introduced into the physical education curriculum of middle schools. In this way, by 1939, as Japan prepared for war, Kendo became a required course of instruction for all boys.
........................................."

OK--- so now you know more than you ever wanted to about where the BUTOKUKAI came from. Now lets go to Korea.

In 1894-5 the Japanese beat the Chinese in the Sino-Japanese War and China ceased to be a player in providing advisors to the Koreans to modernize the Korean security forces. Japan immediately moved into the vacuum and began to establish institutions based on Japanese culture. One of the earliest and best known was the Korean branch of the BUTOKUKAI known as the BUTOKUKAI-CHOSON which was established in 1896. In this way the sport of Kendo was introduced to the penninsula, was formulated into its near-final version in 1906, and was later mandated as part of schooling in the 1930-s as it was in Japan at the same time.

Let stop here for a minute and let folks digest this. If folks would like me to continue I will.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[focus]

please do continue

[cesarekim]

Kim Yon Dal Sonsaenim was a REALLY nice man and a great master. I met him as a child in the late 70's and early 80's when he came to visit in Italy and later when I went to show my manners in Seoul.

He used to teach at the Penitentiary Police Dojo and was an awesome heuri(SP?) specialist. This is as much as I remember about him from the practices I was at. I remember I traded a couple of switchblades for candy but I guess that's slightly off thread....

His son lives in Canada and has a business in Central America somewhere. He is a 7 Dan but hasn't practiced within a dojang in a while. He came over to visit in Italy Kim Taek Joon about 5 years ago and is a nice person.

Kim Taek Joon, was the first of Kim Yon Dal's pupils to make 8 Dan (1998). He is an amateur kumdo-in who lives in Italy and founded the MuMunKwan Association here. There are 6 dojangs in the association and they are non-commercial in nature. The fees are to pay the rent of the venues but no money is paid to the various gwangjang.

If you really want to go delve into this historical stuff, you might want to contact Master Rhee Jong Nim (8 Dan Hanshi (Beumsa?)) who is the Vice-President of the KKA. I forget who is teacher was but he's been in the thick of things forever. He might put you in contact with either Seo Byung Yoon (8 Dan Kyoshi?) who is a retired JAL executive and currently one of the top managers in the KKA or Mr Lee (I forget his name :blushing:) who is the Samoo Gukjang (Administrative Manger) of the KKA. Any of these gentlemen would be able to give you the details you want on the various teachers. These are probably some of the best people to ask but I don't know if they will have time to do this for you... They might if you describe the project to them and they all speak English.

Hope this helps and best of luck with this work. It sounds REALLY interesting.

Regards,
Cesare

[Bruce W Sims]

Here are more of my notes.
Warning: These are an on-going work-in-progress and this particular section is not as organized as it might be. If you get the feeling like its a bit disjointed, it's not you, trust me!

This portion follows the previous section and is primarily about the nature of the "military sword" influence from Japan to Korea. Enjoy.

"............................
In like manner, the Japanese army perpetuated the use of the sword in the training of its commissioned and non-commissioned officers at the Toyama Military Academy near Tokyo. Often characterized as Japans’ “West Point,” The Rikugun Heigakko-ryo Toyama Gakko Shucho-jo was established in 1873, evolving from the Officers’ Academy or “Heigakko” established in Kyoto in 1868. Renamed the Rikugun Toyama Gakko or Toyama Army Academy in 1874, the oversight of the school shifted from the Army Military Science Academy to the Army ministry in May, 1875 to become the Japanese Army’s Military Preparatory School. Enrollment drew from various disciplines of the Japanese army as well as accepting sponsored individuals from throughout the Japanese Asian sphere of influence. For example the Japanese representative, Takuzo Ushiba escorted some 40 Korean candidates from Korea to Japan for enrollment in various schools. Half those numbers were enrolled in Toyama Academy for the seven months of training. Nor was the training restricted to conditioning the body only. In 1919, when the Japanese proposal of abolishing racial discrimination was submitted to, and turned down by, the League of Nations, the concept of “kokutai” or “superiority by virtue of innate national values or virtues” found new emphasis at the academy.
The Toyama sword curriculum was originally drawn from a range of some 200 sword schools, though perhaps predominantly from the Okuden-level techniques of the Muso Hasegawa Eishin Ryu. The commission established for this purpose focused on the use of the sword as a weapon for the battlefield. This pragmatic approach to the selection of sword material was dependent on the view of the sword (“ken”) as a tool with a view of identifying the most effective technique (“jutsu”)for actual combat. Ken-jutsu schools differed significantly from what was later to develop as Ken-Do, where the suffix “-Do” suggested a life-long dedication to character improvement rather than simple combat utility.
Among the many personalities associated with the Toyama Academy were individuals who were to have great influence of the development of Japanese sword in the 20th Century. The Kendo Master, Takano Sasaburo was the Academy’s chief fencing master during the 1920-s. OS Nakayama, Hakudo, an Eishin-ryu (aka: Muso-Jikiden Eishin-Ryu) sword master and considered the “father of Toyama Ryu Iaido” is identified as having taught Omori Ryu Iaido at the Academy in May, 1922 before progressing to developing his own sword style, Muso Shinden Ryu Batto Jutsu. Three individuals who were to have considerable impact on the direction of Oriental swordsmanship throughout the 20th Century were descended in their fashion from Master Nakayama.

Colonel Moringa Kiyoshi, who, as a lieutenant in 1925 sent a letter to Nakayama, Hakudo on behalf of the research committee requesting asking for his assistance in organizing the academy sword curriculum. Assigned to the academy as a fencing instructor on four separate occasions his final assignment was as Director of Fencing from which position he contributed to the modification of kata in 1939.

2.)Yamaguchi, Yuuki who later would originate the Zen Nippon Toyama Ryu Iaido So Remmei was assigned to the academy in 1939 and would be posted to China in 1940 as a fencing teacher.

3.)Nakamura, Taizaburo entered the Army in 1932 having already esttablished himself as a strong fencer and taught both Kendo and bayonet to new recruits and officers. In 1938 he taught fencing at a boy’s academy that was associated with the Toyama academy. In 1939 he attended the Instructors course at Toyama Academy and was sent to China as a “Special Combat Teacher” from 1940 to 1944.

: “…… No other school -- even the other two major Toyama Ryu schools --
practice in this manner; although some have since borrowed the
concept and have their own method of "happo no giri", etc.

In Manchuria, about 1944, Nakamura sensei had an inspiration while
practicing Chinese character calligraphy. Just as world-class
pianists practice the scales, Chinese (and Japanese) calligraphers
practice the "ei" character. The "ei" character has 8 basic strokes,
each one done in a precise stroke order that never changes. This
exercise is called "Ei-ji Happo" [8 laws of the character "ei"] and
teaches the 8 strokes -- the "dot", vertical line, horizontal line,
and downward diagonal lines. While sensei was practicing "ei-ji
happo" [remember, at this time he was an army fencing teacher] the
idea struck him, "hmmmm --- sorta like swordsmanship ... thrust
(dot), left and right horizontal cuts, vertical cut, and left and
right downward diagonal cuts." Later he formalized his teachings and
called it "Happogiri" [Eight Directions of Cutting] and made it
integral to his style called "Nakamura Ryu Battojutsu."(Guy Powers, per correspondence 06-28-02) …..”
There is also a Onazaki, Yoshimoto and his son, Onazaki, Mitsuo.
..............................."

I'll hold-up again, for people to comment, ask questions or ?????

BTW: Thank you, Cesare. I'll do what I can to follow-up in a day or so and let you know what response I get. Thanks again.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Miles]

Bruce,

This stuff is priceless - keep it coming. This is the kind of information that makes this all worthwhile.

The last part about Nakamura sensei in Manchuria was very interesting.

I would be very interested to learn about any sensei posted to Korea in the early years to teach.

Miles