kumdo vs Gumdo

[K3719er]

Ok, Ive been taking Haidong Gumdo for a bout a month and a half now, nd im doinf well in it. I found this forum yesterday while looking for help on form 2. Now, is Kumdo another word for Kendo, or is it another word for Gumdo, or is it all different and am I just crazy. Anyway, for anyone here who doesent know what Gumdo is, we ude solid wooden samuri looking swords to train with instead of bamboo (sorry, havnt learned the full terminology yet, so forgive me.)

[chef2k]

yes kumdo is the same as kendo with a few minor diffrences such as terminology and some etiquite

[June]

Hey K3719er,

Kumdo and Kendo and Gumdo all have the same spelling in chinese charachters. Gumdo uses the "G" to set themselves apart from Kumdo. I also took HaeDong Gumdo, but wanted to take the kumdo/kendo to begin with but really enjoyed it while I did it. I believe that you are talking about the muk-kum (wooden sword). I don't know how it is where you are learning but after 1st dan my sabumnim's told me to get a jin-gum and practice cutting bamboo and stuff. Loads of fun.

On a side note tho...Haedong gumdo was recently made and does not have the continuous thousand year history that your teachers may claim. It is however very unique and only you can decide how much you can take from it. The longest I ever did kim-ha-sae was for like 20 mins. That sucked!

[Ningpo]

This is just the thread I have been searching for !!! I have a few questions as a complete rookie. Any input will be appreciated. Is Gumdo the same as Kumdo or is it different. Kumdo seems to be a Korean version of Kendo, but the Gumdo websites I have been on do not show the practitioners wearing the Kendo/Kumdo uniforms or armor. Is Gumdo to Japanese Kenjutsu like Kumdo is to Kendo? I am starting to practice Koryo Gumdo at my Taekwondo school but when I was looking to get into a sword art I was origanally looking for a Kendo school. On the surface of it, it looks like Kumdo is much like Kendo but Gumdo is not (i.e. fencing). I have read where some people have written that Gumdo and Kumdo are the same thing but different spellings, it doesnt seem that way to me. HELP !!!! I don't want to invest alot of time and study in Gumdo when it's Kumdo I probably was searching for, or Kendo. Japanese or Korean makes no difference to me, it's the style and practice of Kendo that I like. Thanks. PS: I hope this is not like other martial arts forums where if you say the wrong thing a few intellectual sharks rip you to shreds, please be gentle.

[supacomboy]

Ningpo, the art you're looking for is kumdo/kendo not gumdo.

[Ningpo]

Bold, You're in Chicago? I'm 50 minutes away from the loop, are their any good schools there that you would recommend ?

[ChicagoKendoist]

Stop by Chicago Kendo on montrose and pauline (on paulina, 1/4 south of montrose. Midwestwest Kendo Federation. tues and friday evenings before 9 should work

[June]

When I was in Korea, I think the Dae-han kumdo association or whatever got pissed at the HaeDong kumdo association and made them not practice with jook-do's and this lead to the name change from Kumdo to Gumdo.

So in a sense, Haedong gumdo is like the japanese Kenjutsu but with a lot kum-bup or kata. If you want to wear the armor and use the jook-do or shinai and learn to ki-up a lot, you want to take Kumdo.

[Ninjamom]

Actually, that's not quite right. (Hooray!!! A topic that I actually know a little something about!!!)

The first poster that said "Gumdo and Kumdo and Kendo are all spelled the same way in Chinese characters" was absolutely correct. Metallurgy, swordsmaking, and swordsmanship started in China, then moved to Korea, then to Japan. In Japan, significant improvements and refinements were made, which then through war and trade, came back into Korea, then into China again. In early Korean history (Paekche, Shilla, around 500 AD), up into the mid Choson Dynasty (late 1400's Korea made it's own alphabet), the Korean elite and the royal court used Chinese characters for literature. The Chinese character for 'Jian Dao' was spoken in Korean as 'Kumdo' or 'Gumdo' (variations of the same pronunciation), and was said 'Kendo' in Japanese. Up until the late 1800's, all three words meant exactly the same thing, and refered to any martial sword art.

In the late 1800's, the Japanese started using the word 'Kendo' to refer only to a sport fencing art, using armor and shinai (bamboo sword). Kenjutsu was used to refer to any other sword art. Meanwhile, back in Korea, 'Kumdo' or 'Gumdo' was still used to refer to any sword art, including the Japanese-style sport fencing using a bamboo sword. Kendo became popular in Korea during the occupation, when Korean martial sports were forbidden, and the Korean police force were trained in Japanese-style martial arts. Today, Kumdo-with-the bamboo-sword (just like Japanese Kendo) is the most widely-known and most practiced of any of the types of kumdo in Korea. Because of this, many people today say that 'kumdo is kendo', because the only Korean sword art they know is the type of 'kumdo' that is exactly like Japanese kendo, except for using Korean terms instead of Japanese terms.

This is probably more 'history' than you wanted, but I thought it was important for background info.

Today there are many active Korean sword arts, all of which are called 'kumdo', and only two of which are anything at all like Japanese kendo. The Korean Kumdo Association, or 'Daehan Kumdo', is exactly like Japanese kendo, and is a member in good standing of the IKF. The Korean Kumdo Federation, or "Hankuk Kumdo", is just like Japanese kendo, but they refuse to admit it, have their separate association, and refuse to be part of the IKF. In addition to these, there is Hankuk Haedong Kumdo, Daehan Haidong Gumdo, Shim Gumdo, Gicheon, Hwarang Gumdo, and nearly a dozen others, all of which use a wooden sword (mok gum) instead of a bamboo sword (chukdo), and none of which look anything like Japanese kendo.

If you want lots and lots of excellent information on all the 'non-kendo' types of kumdo/gumdo, I recommend you visit the HDGD Forum. For some video clips of some of the different techniques, try here, bottom half of the page.

As far as the history of haidong gumdo or haedong kumdo (again, alternate spellings reflecting two different associations using the same art), it does not go back thousands of years. It's two main modern leaders studied gicheon (a very rare Korean martial art similar in style to Northern Mantis, with sword techniques that do go back huindreds of years) and shim gumdo (a method of mediation using sword techniques started by a monk in the 1960's. but possibly containing elements of traditional Korean monastic sword arts). So, it is based on some elements from older lineage authentic Korean sword techniques, but the organization of the forms and curriculum is from the 1970's. The organization of the curriculum is part of the genius of the haedong kumdo arts, and it tends to produce excellent cutting technique, as can be seen in the cutting competitions at the national and international levels.

More info can be found at the websites for the World Haidong Gumdo Federation, the US Haidong Gumdo Association, and if you can read Korean, the World Haedong Kumdo Federation

As an aside, I only know of 'Koryo Gumdo' by reputation, and unfortunately, I have not heard good things about it. Also, if kendo is what you want, then you are looking for a school affiliated with 'Daehan Kumdo'.

[Ningpo]

Wow, that was bloody long AND very useful....thanks.

[June]

Ningpo,

Just an FYI, I wanted to take Kumdo instead of Kendo because I'm Korean and all that. In hind-sight, I just wish I'd have taken more time in choosing a school because I ended up with a competent teacher, but it turned out he was kind of an ass who is only in it for the money. I am going to stick it out for another 2 month's because I had to prepay in advance and I'll be damned if he get's my money w/o earning it. I have heard that there is another non affiliated Kumdo place that is just about doing kumdo. No frills just a hard work out day in and day out. I'm torn between going there or to join the Seattle Kendo Kai which has been around before WWII. Anyway! Just be forewarned and do your research and ask a lot of questions before you hand over your money.

[Amoralist]

Ningpo,

Just an FYI, I wanted to take Kumdo instead of Kendo because I'm Korean and all that. In hind-sight, I just wish I'd have taken more time in choosing a school because I ended up with a competent teacher, but it turned out he was kind of an ass who is only in it for the money. I am going to stick it out for another 2 month's because I had to prepay in advance and I'll be damned if he get's my money w/o earning it. I have heard that there is another non affiliated Kumdo place that is just about doing kumdo. No frills just a hard work out day in and day out. I'm torn between going there or to join the Seattle Kendo Kai which has been around before WWII. Anyway! Just be forewarned and do your research and ask a lot of questions before you hand over your money.

I hope you find a good school.
Good luck, June.

[June]

Thanks Amoralist,

I hope so too. Maybe I should go live in Korea for another year or so? Well, off to class.

[sunglassesqqeb]

Bold, You're in Chicago? I'm 50 minutes away from the loop, are their any good schools there that you would recommend ?

Ningpo,
Our dojang, Moodokwan Kumdo is located in lemont (I55 & Rt. 83 area) about 30 mins west of the loop. If you're anywhere near, let me know and I'll arrange for you to attend a few classes.

Joe Hibbs

[Amoralist]

Ningpo,
Our dojang, Moodokwan Kumdo is located in lemont (I55 & Rt. 83 area) about 30 mins west of the loop. If you're anywhere near, let me know and I'll arrange for you to attend a few classes.

Joe Hibbs

John shin,
Did you ever visit other kendo schools and spar and practice with them?
I think you should sometime.
Please teach them a good lesson.